Path: news.net.uni-c.dk!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail From: Jerry Avins Newsgroups: comp.ai.neural-nets,comp.lang.apl,comp.lang.awk,comp.lang.beta,comp.lang.cobol,comp.lang.dylan,comp.lang.forth Subject: Re: Einstein's Riddle Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 14:03:59 -0500 Organization: The Hectic Eclectic Lines: 40 Message-ID: <3AAFC09F.5240EEDB@ieee.org> References: <3AACB567.A59B8497@Azonic.co.nz> <3AACE6CF.7F05484D@ieee.org> <0W8r6.178$fo5.14165@news.get2net.dk> <3AAD60F3.120F284A@ieee.org> <3AAE371A.2F9F596F@brazee.net> <98m43a$fe2$1@localhost.localdomain> <3AAEAD1A.BCDE11DB@ix.netcom.com> <98mugg$2mj$1@news.igs.net> <3AAF13CA.C7EA3113@ix.netcom.com> <98nlos$d2n$1@news.igs.net> <3AAF97B3.A7C7B34D@ix.netcom.com> <98o7q6$vcn$2@localhost.localdomain> Reply-To: jya@ieee.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbdC0i/MtdlTzqtI1WGLbksZEH9zZG1QapX5wNVNY5NYVUola0IvWo8 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Mar 2001 19:04:13 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: news.net.uni-c.dk comp.ai.neural-nets:67590 comp.lang.apl:29412 comp.lang.awk:17181 comp.lang.beta:12775 comp.lang.cobol:102680 comp.lang.dylan:24198 comp.lang.forth:78597 aph@redhat.invalid wrote: > > In comp.lang.forth J Thomas wrote: > : Saying there is no difference unless you can tell the difference is a > : fallacy. > > It's a valid philosophical position. It may not be one with which you > agree, but that doesn't make it fallacious. > > Andrew. It would be more defensible to claim that if there is no way for anyone to discern a difference, then there is none. Otherwise, one must adopt the uncomfortable position that some things that are -- not seem, but _are_ -- identical for me are distinguishable by you. To put this concretely, you would need to claim that two scarves of identical size and texture but differing in pattern would be identical to a blind person distinct to a sighted person. That position is, at least to me, awkward at best. I have twin sisters; when they were little, they had many sets of paired clothes. Once, a visitor futilely tried to foment trouble between them. "Suppose your sister says that the blouse is hers. How would you settle that?" "There's always some little mark or seam somewhere that we can use to tell." (This at age 5!) "But suppose there just isn't?" "If we can't tell, it doesn't matter." I was (and remain) proud of that mindset. Now, would you support the statement "If we can't tell, there is no difference"? I hope not! Jerry -- Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get. -----------------------------------------------------------------------