Path: news.daimi.aau.dk!jlk From: jlk@daimi.aau.dk (J|rgen Lindskov Knudsen) Newsgroups: comp.lang.beta Subject: Re: Is Beta For Real? Date: 30 Sep 1994 11:59:32 GMT Organization: DAIMI, Computer Science Dept. at Aarhus University Lines: 153 Message-ID: <36guj4$bsq@belfort.daimi.aau.dk> References: <35uvqc$ssi@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM> Reply-To: jlknudsen@daimi.aau.dk (Jorgen Lindskov Knudsen) NNTP-Posting-Host: lithium.daimi.aau.dk David Geary writes: > Consider the following: > > o Beta is only available from Mjolner - at a price > > o Beta is not available for Windows > > o You cannot even copy the documents available via the Beta Home > page without the threat of legal action, unless you have a > license or special permission from Mjolner > > Goodness folks, haven't we learned anything from Eiffel? Let me try to answer these questions: The (short) history of the BETA development ------------------------------------------- The development of BETA originally started as a research project at universities in Oslo, Aalborg, and Aarhus in the mid seventies. During 1986-1990, the Mjolner BETA System was developed as part of a project with cooperation between universities and industry in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark. This project was called Mjolner and a number of other results came out of that project (see the BETA FAQ for further details). In 1988, Mjolner Informatics was founded to develop the Mjolner BETA System into a commercial product. In the Mjolner project it was decided to use SUN workstations. Thus this is why one of the first implementations were for SUN. Apple Computer, Europe financed a port to the Macintosh, together withe development of a powerful GUI framework for the MAC. Other ports were made to Apollo and HP workstations as a result of support/grants from Apollo, Finland, and HP, Bristol, UK. A Linux implementation was developed in order to support the large number of students that have a personal Linux system. A version for Windows NT/Windows 4.0 is currently under development. This is in response to a European Esprit project where some of the partners want BETA on these platforms. As you may see, the development has very much been influenced by customer needs. This will continue in the future. > > Consider the following: > > o Beta is only available from Mjolner - at a price > The definition of BETA is public, in the sense that any one can make an implementation. Mjolner Informatics is willing to discuss possible cooperation with interested companies for alternative implementations. In fact Mjolner Informatics is interested in discussing other kinds of business cooperations with interested parties. Development of an industrial strength implementation is a major effort, requiring extensive funding (or a big 'moneybag' :-) In our environment there haven't been any other way to create this first implementation that making it through the founding of a commercial organization for the project. But as stated above, we will be happy to see competitors on the scene, and even be happy to see public-domain/freeware or whatever implementations, too. However, as I am sure you will understand, there is no way Mj|lner Informatics can offer money for these endevours. As for easy access to the system, we would like to point out that there are Personal Edition versions available for all supported platforms, with prices ranging in the 50-100 US$ range (depending on the media costs). This should not hinder any serious testing of the system. There is also a free personal demo version available, and anybody can get it. It has all the functionality of the system, except that it only runs for a limited amout of time. And it cannot be used for teaching and commercial purposes. > o Beta is not available for Windows As said above, a Windows NT version will soon be available. A Windows 4.0 will be available when Windows 4.0 is available. We decided NOT to consider Windows 3.1, since it will be replaced by Windows 4.0 (according to Microsoft), and it is a lot of work implementing stuff on Windows 3.1 (short filenames, 16 addresses, etc), and we have limited resources. We are considering an OS/2 version, but we have curently no resources. We have tried to get support form IBM, Denmark, but they were not interested. We hope that the Windows NT version can be easily ported to OS/2. > > o You cannot even copy the documents available via the Beta Home > Page without the threat of legal action, unless you have a > license or special permission from Mjolner > You're right, that the current copyright notice is severely restricted. The BETA Home Page is under construction, and while doing so, we wanted to be sure, that any failures from our side did not invalidate our copyrights. The BETA Home Page is now in a fairly stable condition (but will be expanded in the future - keep looking for the news :-). We have therefore looked into the copyright notice in the Home Page. We have moved the copyright notice into its proper place, namely to protect our copyright to the Mjolner BETA System manuals, which will be made available through the BETA Home Page (two have already been added). It is our hope, that this change in copyright policy will be to the benefit for all. It will enable the distribution of huge parts of the material available through the BETA Home Page (in fact this includes all the material previously available from the BETA Home Page until today, where the two manuals were added (with restricted copyright notice). By the way: the URL of the BETA Home Page is: http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~beta/info > > Goodness folks, haven't we learned anything from Eiffel? > We hope so. The problem (as we see it) is, that development of industrial strength software costs money, and if anybody then have to give it away for free, nobody will develop new software. We have tried our best to make cheap, and easy accessible systems available, along with full-fledged solutions (which costs slightly more). We see no othe ralternative, except a bunch of you bright persons getting together to create a freely available implementation. As said above, anybody can get the demo-version and try it, and the pesonal versions are very cheap: $50. > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > David Geary "Too much walkin shoes worn thin > geary@rmtc.Central.Sun.COM Too much trippin > And my soul's worn thin" > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > -- Jorgen Lindskov Knudsen, Mjolner Informatics Science Park Aarhus, Gustav Wiedsvej 10, DK-8000 Aarhus C, DENMARK E-mail: jlknudsen@mjolner.dk, Phone: +45 86 20 20 00, Fax: +45 86 20 12 22